The Sopranos, Pt. 2

That was quite an appropriate ending and considering the amount of bloodshed and drama from the last few years, a very nice one.

Irritating as hell though.

Comments |0|

  • I think that a lot of bad things will come out in this investigation. I followed the Warren Jeffs trial closely and there is so much secrecy surrounding the FCLDS.
    Also–keep up the good work on the cancer sticks. Way to go!

  • Damn, all this negative press cannot be good, especially with all the secrecy surround FCLDS, people will question the faith more.

  • I just don’t understand why the government continually feels they have a right to get involved in these things. Like they don’t have anything better to do! These people were minding their own business and, really, doing their own thing. Why do we always think we need to interfere in somebody else’s lifestyle and/or beliefs?

  • I am very disappointed with the misleading reporting at CNN. For example, the written article on CNN says that a number of “women left the compound voluntarily,” implying that they wished to be away from the compound. The real reason, obviously, is that these women wish to be with their children who have been, fundamentally, kidnapped by the state. The video report implies that the original caller was threatened that if she left the compound she would be forced to cut her hair and “have sex with lots of men,” implying that these are punishments to which she would have to submit if she attempted to leave the compound. In my understanding, this is not the case, but instead these were concerns she had regarding what would happen if she were in the “outside world.” Such incorrect and inflammatory reporting by CNN is not helpful.
    My biggest concern is that CNN has not reported some of the frightening comments by youth protective services in Texas. For example, the press conference indicated that the reason why the boys were removed from the compound was because they would be brought up in the religion of their parents. Yes, you are reading me correctly — the state has taken the step to remove children from their parents in order to prevent them from receiving religious instruction from their parents. While I, personally, disagree with the religious tenants of the FLDS faith, and while I think that it is likely that Mr. Barlow is an abusive individual, removing children from their parents to prevent them from receiving religious instruction from their parents is the grossest abrogation of parental rights by a government I have ever heard.
    The men, by the way, are currently, essentially, imprisoned without charges, confined to the ranch by blockades. There is a news blackout, where the children, who have been taken captive by the government, are not allowed access to the media to tell their story. When one of the captives got close enough to the news media that they could shout to him to ask if you was being treated well, and he shook his head “no,” the police came and immediately pushed the media back, and the child was dragged off so that he could not give more messages to the outside. Apparently both the women who are with the captive children, and the men in the compound, have been deprived of their cell phones, preventing them from telling their stories to the outside world, allowing youth protective services to tell what ever story they wish to, essentially eliminating the possibility of an independent press. Essentially, Texas is running a prison camp, where all members of this religious cult are being held in unlawful imprisonment and isolation, guilty only by association with the religion (and by association with the unlawful acts of some members of this cult), and they are preventing the prisoners from telling their stories.
    I am fundamentally angry and shocked that such a travesty of justice can occur within our society. The abrogation of basic rights — especially the rights to religious freedoms and the rights of parents to raise their children — by the Texas government is orders of magnitude larger than the abuses that triggered the American Revolution. I do not know why people are not marching in the streets, threatening to revolt. Regardless of all the inflammatory material that is available from ex-cult members (who can hardly be considered to be reliable witnesses — they left the cult because they were upset, bringing objective credibility into question), what the government has done is to take 419 children away from their parents because of a complaint about abuse in a neighbor’s home. Men and women have been imprisoned, essentially, and transparency has been denied. If our country has reached the point where such behavior by our government can be expected, then it is time for all patriots to arise and take action to preserve personal and religious freedoms, beginning by expressing our outrage in letter and by vote, and considering more drastic measures if such abrogations of personal and religious freedoms become commonplace.

  • So in other words, you would rather have the sexual slavery of women to go on? In other words, you would rather have women continue to be raped and beaten by men for sex? In other words you prefer for women to be ‘forced’ into marriage? Hmmm? Is this correct? So you like it when men are in total contol, and women have no rights other than to bear children? You like it when women are controlled, afraid and manipulated? It is past time for the US government, the state government to step in and take action – this is disgusting!! On a regular basis these women have to put up with pedophiles, and no one – absolutely no one is there to help them. Could you imagine if “your daughter” had to go through this? Could you see your granddaughter have to have sexual intercourse with a 40 year old man? Could you see your 13 year old child being forced into a marriage with a 50 year old man? Take it ‘personally’ – look at it realistically. In a nation of laws it is past time that we did.

  • Richar, Mike, so if one creates a religious sect to sun god that, for example, requires human sacrifice, you’d say government has no right to interfere as it is religious freedom?
    In this particular case are you saying that it’s OK for 50-year olds to marry 13-year olds as long as parents say it’s OK? If you are saying there is no evidence, why don’t you research Warren Jeffs and FLDS. There have been girls and women who escaped the sect as far away as 4 years ago; there have also been boys forced out of their homes so that they don’t take girls away from 60-year old men. Just google for FLDS, you’ll find more than enough evidence.
    Not to mention that the new report says that they found pregnant teens as well as teens who already have babies in the compound. If this isn’t evidence, I don’t know what is.

  • I’m not saying that there isn’t evidence that what the government finds “wrong” did indeed occur. I am simply stating the fact that for these people, that is the life they believe in. We are constantly roaming around the world telling people that how they think or what they believe in is “wrong”, and we butt-in when many times our opinion just isn’t solicited. And to your point, I’m sure if my beliefs aligned with those of the FLDS then I likely wouldn’t have an issue with my 13 year old marrying a 50 year old man because that would be the norm in my world. We have to remember that just because we may not agree with someone’s beliefs, doesn’t make ours any more right or wrong than theirs, just different. We love to preach tolerance until it rubs us the wrong way, don’t we?

  • Just because the terrorist ragheads in Palestine hide behind their wives and children while they fight doesn’t make it right. Plain and simple it’s cowardly and wrong. Fucking a 13 year old when you are 50 is pedophilia whether the rest of your society thinks it’s OK or not. It’s just wrong, plain and simple and anyone that can even entertain the idea has some serious issues.
    I agree that the government has no place whatsoever interfering with anyone’s religion but the fact is that religions cannot cross the line into other people’s generally accepted human rights. Just because you are raised to believe something is right doesn’t make it so.

  • I am stunned by the reaction to this post. Paedophilia is, as you say, Richard, paedophilia. I know that six hundred years ago, children were married and having children as soon as puberty arrived. (Romeo and Juliet is the classic case) The difference between society then and now is that those people would be looking at a life span of maybe 40 years. In our present society this sort of behaviour is considered wrong and has been legislated against. The justification used for these criminal acts in some of these comments could also be used to revive the ancient Inca religions where the priests sacrificed thousands of people a day! I understand the Libertarian point of view but society must be based on some basic rules. And institutional paedophilia is way out of bounds!

  • Archie, I agree with you 100%. I think the lifespan factor is what proponents of having sex with children are ignoring. Not only is our life span a minimum of twice what it was only a couple of hundred years ago, but believe it or not children are maturing much later than they did. Back then you were considered ready for child birthing shortly after you started bleeding and everyone started working at a much younger age, expecting to have a full family by the time they were in their late teens.

  • I in no way support some of the activities of the FDLS. That said, I am concerned that the government can essentially destroy a religious community based upon an ex parte’ complaint of abuse. Who defines abuse. If the Amish believe in corporal punishment and the authorities receive notice of a paddling, then based upon this precedent they could get an ex parte’ order and remove all of the children from this order. If the Southern Baptist’s beleive that a wife is to submit to their husband, is this enough. Please remember, you couldbe next.

  • That’s what makes this such a hard decision. I do have a hard time supporting a government that thinks so little of it’s citizen’s civil liberties. I do think that they should have gone in like they did but I don’t agree with removing all of the children from the compound until and unless they actually have proof of abuse of those specific children. Certainly if they are pregnant that would constitute enough reason, but what about the others?

  • It now appears, from news reports, that the sheriff may have had an inside informant for years. This brings up at least two disturbing questions. On the Constitutional issue, if they had direct information then serve warrants for the law breakers and leave the rest practice their beliefs. On the second issue, if they had an informant providing information, why allow the criminal behavior to continue for so long.

  • I was reading the same thing yesterday. I agree that they should have just arrested folks that were breaking the law and left the rest alone.
    As far as the informant, police regularly have long-term informants as well as undercover cops. Just because someone was providing them with information certainly doesn’t mean it was complete information, they don’t say how often the informant got in touch with them, and how could they be sure it was the correct information.
    I would bet that except for the fact that someone called the hotline, they probably would not even have moved in yet but once it was known to the general public they felt they had to.

  • Mike you are f’n moron. Anyone who says that if that is the norm in their lifestyle then it shouldn’t be stopped for a 15 year old to have child with a 50 year old. The goverment stepped in because these children could not protect themselves. Anyone who rapes or beats a child or allows it to happen should be beat. If anyone tried to touch my daughter or make her do anything of the sort I would fight to my death to protect her!! Do you have children mike??

  • Yes Jason I do have children, 2 daughters in fact. I would also fight to the death for them if they were in harms way. I’m not advocating that lifestyle for myself, or for you, or for our children. I am saying that the FLDS world is not our own, so how can we pass judgement on that lifestyle if we have no concept of what it’s like?

  • Regarding government involvement– may I remind you that sex with girls under 18 is ILLEGAL, and the government has not changed that law. The government will bend the law for religious beliefs within reason- for instance, allowing certain Native American tribes to legally use peyote. But expecting the government to allow child molestation and forced marriages is ridiculous.
    Here’s an interesting article about the FLDS that I found on Google. ~
    According to The Economist magazine, and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s Fifth Estate TV program, some of the unusual theological beliefs and practices of the FLDS are:
    Men must have at least three wives and as many children as possible in order to enter the highest level of heaven, and to have the opportunity to evolve into a God.
    A woman’s role is to serve a man and be submissive to his needs.
    Women who disobey men will have their souls burn in Hell for eternity.
    Children are usually required to leave school at the age of 13 or 14.
    Their marriage ceremony consists of the woman placing her hand in the man’s hand in what is called “the patriarchal grip.”
    A man is not permitted to have sexual intercourse with one of his wives if she is pregnant.
    “If…an older man seduces a 13-year old girl….in his own mind he doesn’t commit sexual abuse…..he views himself as married.” (Comment by Ron Barton, special investigator of “closed societies,” at the Utah State Attorney’s Office)
    MY NOTE– yeah, well bully for him– it’s still ILLEGAL!
    Also according to The Economist, critics say that the schools run by the Canadian branch of the FLDS provide minimal education. Boys are trained as farm and forest laborers. Girls are trained to be
    “… young brides and mothers….Women who have fled tell of girls as young as 13 being married off to polygamous men three times their age; of babies born to girls of 14 and 15; and of under-age girls being brought in from similar American communes for arranged marriages and to serve as ‘breeding stock’.”
    Benjamin Bistline spent part of his childhood among polygynists in the main FLDS group in what is now called Colorado City, AZ. He has written a book about his experiences. He has observed that in order to maintain a culture in which most men have many wives, it is necessary to persuade or force most male youths to leave the community at a relatively young age. Teenaged women with restricted education are then matched up with older men, preferably before they develop an interest in boys their own age. After an unregistered marriage, the new wives often financially support the family by applying for welfare as single mothers. It is quite possible that the same policies are pursued in the Bountiful group. The U.S. and Canadian branches appear to be closely linked. There have been allegations in the U.S. and Canadian media that teenage women have been transported from the U.S. group to supply men in Bountiful with additional brides.

  • I don’t really have time this morning to write another post but this is from the Associate Press. Bear in mind that certainly not everything they print is the truth. I’ve done no research whatsoever on this story:
    The mothers of children removed from a polygamous sect’s ranch in West Texas are appealing to Gov. Rick Perry for help, saying some of their children have become sick and even required hospitalization.
    In the letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press, the mothers from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also say children are “horrified” by physical examinations they have undergone while in state custody.
    The mothers said the letter was mailed Saturday. Perry spokesman Robert Black said Sunday that he had not seen the letter and couldn’t comment.
    Some 416 children were rounded up and placed in temporary custody 11 days ago after a domestic violence hot line recorded a complaint from a 16-year-old girl. She said she was physically and sexually abused by her 50-year-old husband.
    The one-page letter, signed by three women who claim they represent others, says about 15 mothers were away from the property when their children were removed.
    “We were contacted and told our homes had been raided, our children taken away with no explanation, and because of law enforcement blockade preventing entering or leaving the ranch, we were unable to get to our homes and had no-where to go,” it said. “As of Wednesday, April 9, 2008, we have been permitted to return to our empty, ransacked homes, heartsick and lonely.”
    The mothers said they want Perry to examine the conditions in which the removed children have been placed.
    “You would be appalled,” the letter said. “Many of our children have become sick as a result of the conditions they have been placed in. Some have even had to be taken to the hospital. Our innocent children are continually being questioned on things they know nothing about. The physical examinations were horrifying to the children. The exposure to these conditions is traumatizing them.”
    Asked about claims that children were hospitalized, state Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marissa Gonzalez said she had not seen the letter and would have to review it before commenting.
    Officials have said that about a dozen children had chicken pox and that others needed prescription medications but hadn’t said whether any were hospitalized.
    A judge will decide this week whether the children will remain in state custody or return to their families. Hearings are scheduled for Monday and Thursday.
    On Sunday, state officials enforced a judge’s order to confiscate the cell phones of the women and children removed from the ranch.
    The emergency order was sought by attorneys ad litem for 18 FLDS girls in the state’s custody, Gonzalez said.
    In a copy of the order provided to the AP, lawyers said the phones should be confiscated “to prevent improper communication, tampering with witnesses and to ensure no outside inhibitors to the attorney-client relationship.”
    Gonzalez estimated that at least 50 phones were taken.
    The children are being housed in San Angelo’s historic Fort Conc ho and at the nearby Wells Fargo pavilion. About 140 women from the ranch are also with the children, although they are not in state custody.
    On Saturday, five FLDS women staying at the fort told Salt Lake City’s Deseret News that the temporary shelter is cramped — cots, cribs and play pens are lined up side by side — and that many of the children are frightened.
    An church member who told the AP that his family members are among those inside the fort called the removal of phones a punishment.
    “This was nothing more than retaliation of Child Protective Services to punish those who were disclosing what is really happening behind that wall of this concentration camp,” said Don, who asked that only his first name be used because of the upcoming custody hearings.
    Affidavits filed by child protection workers said they found a pattern of abuse at the Yearning for Zion ranch in Eldorado, about 45 miles south of San Angelo.
    The 1,700-acre fenced ranch, a former game preserve, was bought by the FLDS in 2003. A number of large dormitory-style homes have been built, along with a small medical center, a cheese factory, a rock quarry, a water treatment plant and a towering, white limestone temple.
    Authorities said they have not yet located the teenage mother whose call for help triggered the raid at the ranch.
    Texas authorities have issued an arrest warrant for the alleged husband, a man identified as Dale Barlow of Colorado City, Arizona, one of two communities on the Utah-Arizona border that have been the traditional home base of the secretive church.
    Texas Rangers met with Barlow and his probation officer in St. George, Utah, on Saturday but did not arrest him. Barlow is serving three years’ probation after pleading no contest to sexual misconduct with a minor — a teenager to whom he was spiritually married.
    “As for Mr. Barlow, we are continuing to look into whether we have a warrant on the correct person,” said Tela Mange, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. “Until we are able to locate and talk with the complainant, it will be difficult for us to know for certain the correct identity of the alleged suspect.”
    The sect practices polygamy in arranged marriages that often pair underage girls with older men. The faith believes the practice will brings glorification in heaven. The mainstream Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, does not practice polygamy.

  • This is exactly what the authorities, in their knee jerk reaction to “save” these people, didn’t think about. That being the real trauma these people will now face. And I’m afraid this is only the beginning of the horrors those kids will face now that the world has decided they need to become “normal”. It’s sad.

  • I am sorry but these people are scum of the earth. They breed these children and then take away their voices so they can make their own choices in life. They get on tv and cry their catatonic cries give us back our children but yet when the judge ordered them to take dna tests to get their chldren back they dont comply. Pure stupidity on their part. Their so called prophet is heading to prison their compound world if falling apart around them, they have now lost their children and will probably never get them back so what good has old warren jeff’s done for them now? Hes behind bars THANK GOD, their children are GONE, their husbands are hiding behind their skirts and make the women speak like stepford wives and they always repeat one thing and skip all other questions. How stupid are they making themselves look. These children might have it rough for a while adjusting to the REAL WORLD.. but they will thank texas later down in life. They can select who they want to marry, they can pick the types of clothes they wish to wear, they can have sex when they wish to and are not forced to. They wont be stuck behind gates that are LOCKED . These people are sick and disgusting they despise the outside world and call us evil but yet they have their hands out for the government checks from the “evil people” go figure on that one. They have been caught in so many lies its unreal. I only wished they had a reply button on their stupid ass captive children of the flds website. Those chldren are not captive they were RESCUED by the great state of texas that I am proud to be a part of where children have a voice and choices. Hooray for the state of texas.. may those child molesters and mothers who allowed it to go on rot in hell and behind bars with their beloved warren jeff’s.

Category: Entertainment